This pod probably would have hit me a lot harder if I listened to it back during covid, but now its just a bit sad and dull. Going way into detail about the testing and the reality of how to try to make a vaccine were extremely nuanced and boring at times. This convo gets exciting at the end when they start talking about Michaels buddist history and meaning of life and purpose and what not. But this was a shorter lex pod that only touched on this stuff, and more of the philosophical kinds of things would have been more interesting. Hopefull we get that in episode 2 with him.